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Christian Erotica and Christian Porn?

Fri Jul 22, 2005, 8:46 PM
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Give me chastity and continence- but not yet! ~ Saint Augustine



At the beginning of this summer, I became involved in a most interesting forum discussion on the possibility of a new genre of art, which fuses unabashed eroticism with a Christian outlook on humanity and life. In short, I asked the DeviantArt community what it thought of the idea of producing Christian Erotica and Christian Pornography.

As you might expect, the reaction of people to this question was both highly volatile and very stimulating. If you are interested, you can read the original forum thread, here:

The Christian Erotica and Christian Porn Forum

Be forewarned, the thread is already rather lengthy, and you should probably not add anything to it unless you have a really striking or original thought! Also, be aware that the whole baby-sitting thing was pretty much a bit of impromptu role-playing by a number of bored deviants, to include myself … so don't get your panties in a knot over it!


I won't try to repeat the discussions and arguments that we enjoyed on that forum thread here in this journal. Rather, let me simply mention that I promised a number of people that I would explore this matter further in a series of deviations on the topic of Christian Erotica.

Toward an Aesthetic of Christian Erotica?

Over the next several months, I plan to do a series of deviations, mostly Political Wallpapers, that will explore the manner in which erotica and even pornography might take on a spiritual and especially a Christian voice in our modern society. Of course, these deviations will attempt to approach the question primarily by visualizing it as a matter of graphical images that, hopefully, will encourage the viewer to look at this matter from a new angle.

At first, I will attempt to visually look at the role that porn and erotica currently play in our society, for better or worse. While much erotica and all porn are, nominally at least, a product of secular society, it is a well-known fact that self-professed Christians are among the many eager consumers of such products. I certainly hope to explore the implications of that, as well.

Eventually, I will begin to ask the pointed question of whether an authentic aesthetic of Christian erotica might not emerge in our society. If so, what sorts of limits ought it to impose upon itself? What benefits might it yield to Christians, and especially to Christian couples? What dangers or threats might it pose as well?

I don't have the answers to these questions at the present time. If you have any thoughts on these matters, I would love it if you were to share them with me!

The culmination of this series, of course, should be a number of deviations that are, well, examples of genuine Christian erotica. Needless to say, the thematic limitations imposed by the anti-porn policies of DeviantArt will prevent me from actually exploring Christian Pornography on this site. But, in all honesty, that's quite alright with me, at this point in my life. As for just what form the anticipated Christian Erotica may take, I can only say that we will see what we shall see.

The Christian Erotica and Christian Porn Series:

This is where I shall list the deviations in this series, for your convenience:



Needless to say, we're just getting started on this series!

A Bit of a Retrospective

In the past, I have already explored some peripheral aspects of this theme in some of my wallpapers and other deviations, to include these:


:thumb6252161:  

Mature Content

The Temptation of Ste. Antonia by Laurion

:thumb6392881:  Chthonian Erotika: First Fruit by Laurion


As you can see, none of these deviations actually probe the potential boundaries of Christian erotica as a discrete genre. Rather, they incorporate certain tropes of eroticism into my own expressions of spirituality. Not quite the same thing, then, but perhaps useful for beginning to think about how to envision this topic, especially if it is making your head hurt a bit?

Am I Just Baiting Christians and Other People of Faith?

Some people might see this topic, and sigh with a certain sense of world-weariness, assuming that I am just out to bait people of faith. This is not the case. I myself profess to be a Christian, and I am willing share some insights into my religious background with anyone who is truly interested and asks. I am fully aware that this topic may shock the sensibilities of some Christians, and it may offend others. But I am approaching the idea of Christian erotica, and even Christian porn, with an open mind, and with what I consider to be good-will.

Here's a thought for you: the Song of Songs is an amazingly erotic and even sexually-explicit collection of love songs and poetry … and yet it is a book of the Bible. If eroticism is good enough for the Bible, then it is surely good enough for me and you!

Maybe offensiveness lies in how we, as individuals, approach the idea of Christian erotica? Here's another thought, this time from the late Pope John Paul II:

Sexual modesty cannot then in any simple way be identified with the use of clothing, nor shamelessness with the absence of clothing and total or partial nakedness. There are circumstances in which total nakedness is not immodest....Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness. Immodesty is only present when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person...The human body is not in itself shameful, nor for the same reasons are sensual reactions, and human sensuality in general. Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of the individual.


If you are offended by this topic alone, then perhaps you need to look toward yourself for the cause and the cure, and not to me? Just a thought …



To hear many religious people talk, one would think God created the torso, head, legs and arms, but the devil slapped on the genitals. ~ Don Schrader


  • Mood: Desperate
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:icondrjdmcwilliams:
drjdmcwilliams Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2012
God created us in his image; he said that our bodies are "very good"; and the first command that he gave the first man and woman was, "Be fruitful and multiply" -- or, in modern language -- "Have sex and make babies!" (The Bible, Genesis 1:27-31). Thus, human sexuality is divinely created and intended for our good. But, unfortunately, many modern church leaders have been misled into promoting the gnostic heresy that sex -- and anything else physical -- is inherently evil. That's not true. The Bible doesn't teach that.

God does set boundaries for our sex lives -- boundaries that protect us from exploitation, disease and heartbreak. For instance, God commands us to be sexually faithful to our spouses (Exodus 20:14), to abstain from premarital sex (1 Corinthians 6:18-19), and to abstain from incest, bestiality, prostitution and homosexual sodomy (Leviticus 18; Ephesians 5:5; Romans 1:18-28). Of course, in today's world, people will argue about why God set particular boundaries and whether they are still appropriate, but the Bible says, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, and the other things that he reveals belong to us and to our children, so that we may do all the words of his law" (Deuteronomy 29:29). That's a fancy way for God to say, "Just trust me. I know what I'm doing. If I tell you to do something, or not to do it, I have reasons that will benefit you. Simply follow my guidance, and you'll live a happier life than you otherwise would." God's goal is not to condemn us, but to make us prosperous, healthy and happy, because he loves us (3 John 1:2, John 3:16-17).

If we remember that, then we can find a rich field of sexual pleasure within the boundaries that God has set. In fact, God specifically tells us that he wants us to enjoy sexual satisfaction "at all times" (Proverbs 5:19) and that he wants us to enjoy wholesome companionship in the process (Genesis 2:18).

Thus, there is a proper place and time for "erotica" in the life of God's people (see Ecclesiastes 3:1), as reflected in the biblical Song of Solomon. That book explicitly describes all sorts of marital fondling and coupling. In fact, commentators have said that several verses describe specific sexual acts that I will leave to your imagination. Despite Solomon's explicit lyrics, his love poem is called "the song of songs" -- or "the greatest song" (Song of Solomon 1:1). In fact, Jewish commentators say that the Song of Solomon is perhaps the greatest book that God gave humanity. But we must always make sure that we keep sexuality within its proper boundaries. Solomon and his bride warn readers against stirring sexual urges prematurely, and the couple calls unrestrained sexual urges the "little foxes that spoil the vines [and] tender grapes" (Song of Solomon 2:7, 15).

Likewise, the Ten Commandments warn us against lust (covetousness), a sin that Jesus tied to committing adultery "in the heart" (Exodus 20:17; Romans 7:7; Matthew 5:27-30). Therefore, I urge writers and artists to tread carefully when dealing with sexual issues. Such issues are an important part of life, and therefore they deserve exploration in art, but please be careful to follow God's guidance, rather than lust or personal agendas.

I understand -- from experience -- the difficulty of discussing sexual issues in Christian art, because I am the author of a Christian book about overcoming sexual abuse. The book is a graphic novel -- "comic book" -- that addresses such issues from the perspective of Mary Magdalene, one of Jesus' earliest followers. My book is based on the premise that Mary Magdalene was sexually abused and prostituted by a gnostic cult of Isis worshipers before Jesus saved her and helped her regain self-respect and godly celibacy. (Ironically, although the gnostics said that physical existence is evil, they considered prostitution to be a sort of spiritual initiation.) I base my book, "Escape of the Sinful Woman," on a comparison of the Bible with many other ancient documents, including the Jewish Talmud, the writings of early "church fathers," and the writings of the gnostic heretics themselves. Each page of the book has footnotes detailing my sources of information, and there is a thick bibliography at the end. I consider the Bible to be the final authority on all historical and theological topics at issue in the book. Thus far, readers have found my work informative and helpful, and readers have complimented me on the art and narrative, and readers have hopefully been drawn closer to Jesus. I thank God for that, and I pray that God will guide you in reading my work and in creating your own.

If you would like to read and support my book ministry, please check out "Escape of the Sinful Woman" at this Amazon address: [link] Please note that I offer both teen and grownup versions of the book. Neither version contains nudity or profanity, but the grownup version deals more directly with certain issues, and thus is a little more frank in certain imagery and wording. However, I strive to glorify God in both versions. Please pray that God is glorified and that readers are benefited.

May God guide and be with you.
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:iconhotmale100:
hotmale100 Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2012
Okay, here is my take on this. For a long time I had a conflict between spirituality and sexuality as a christian, and yes, struggled with porn. The thing that attracted me to porn (not perfect models, and commerial porn), was seeing people having genuine, intense, sensual and incredible pleasure sexually. Most of the time this regrettably involved people having sex outside of marriage. I really went to pray about this and felt God show me a few things that may be relevant here. But they have reeeally helped me walk in freedom from porn anyway.

1) Sex was His idea. Sexual pleasure in all its various forms was His idea and He delights in us when we enjoy it. In fact what I realised was that the sort of sexual pleasure that these "sinners" were having - and which I want - was actually (and I am not talking about violence, or degradation) a totally good thing, and God is totally positive about great sex in all its forms. He didn't invent sex to be a little bit good, but awesome. Remember that after God made man and woman he said it was "very good" and not just "good".

2) The world is screwed up and they don't understand how God's great idea - which was covernental sex. God is totally positive and enthusiastic about covernental sexual pleasure. I think God is extreme in His goodness sometimes, and I think religion has reduced our understanding of God.

3) Not only is the world messed up but religion is also messed up and has messed many of us up. Because the presiding unspoken culture in evangelical christianity is that sex is "okay" within marriage - which it is of course - and you are "allowed" to have sexual pleasure, "permitted" to, its tolerated, if you like. But intense sexual pleasure is distrusted and and you always have to be on your guard against lust and perversion in some way. We don't ahve a culture of celebration of sensual covernental pleasure. It is can be so wonderful, releasing and transcendent - soul, spirit, and body in communion with another human being who are joined in a lifelong love covernent. Its just amazing, isn't it.

In fact I believe we have incredible freedom in covernental sex and that God positively rejoices in it, not condemns us for having too much - if that makes sense.

I also believe that freedom to enjoy also applies to masturbation if you can do so without breaking covernant with your partner.


So the issue re erotica is - how do we have erotica that is pleasureable without breaking covernant in any way.

These images are very mild, I don't think they are pornographic personally. The question about where to draw the line is a personal one I guess, but I don't want the religious police deciding for me, I prefer to settle that in own heart between God and myself (and my wife).

I love that you have this debate and explore this question. Its great, don't stop!
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:iconaspersio:
Aspersio Featured By Owner Aug 25, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Christian porn/erotica/insert immoral act here is impossible, and can NOT be pursued. That is like saying you are going to pursue that 2+2 is really 5 and not 4. It is impossible and it is vanity. Do not pursue this, because you are misusing the name of God and acting like pornography is okay. It is sin. What your doing is sin, and it is contrary to the Bible. Doing this is going against God Himself, therefore making you just another person promoting pornography. It is perverse.

What you are doing is no different from people who claim to be "Christians" and going out killing innocent people in the name of Jesus. It is WRONG. Anybody who openly contradicts the scriptures, yet calls themselves Christians, are wrong. It is also those very people who made Jesus pissed off.

Don't corrupt the word "Christian" anymore than it already is.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Aug 26, 2009
Well, I'm not so sure, to be honest. It seems that the crux of it all is whether or not you think sexuality is immoral or not. If so, that is a very gnostic viewpoint, and runs up against some core Christian values about life. If not, then is it possible that we are confusing modesty for morality? It is this line between modesty (a purely cultural, temporal value) and morality (a value grounded in theological virtues) that I am most interested in exploring.

Don't forget that there is already a considerable amount of erotica and raw sexuality in the Scriptures, starting of course with the Song of Solomon and ranging to some gross excesses such as in Ezekiel. I really sense this is not so simple an issue as the preachers would have us believe.
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:iconaspersio:
Aspersio Featured By Owner Aug 26, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Don't be foolish. Song of Songs is showing the intimacy that comes with the commitment of marriage! You are really taking it out of context by even attempting to compare it with explicit images that only promote lust, which is sin. You don't see any spiritual man who walks with God, go have sex in public for all to see. Unless you want to take things out of context even more, and say Absalom was a great man of God.

The intimacy of sex (within marriage) is NOT meant to be broadcasted so everyone can just lust over it.

Was it not "lust" that caused the inevitable corruption within the people of Sodom and Gomorrah? The people became so entangled in sin, they began to rape anything they saw. That is NOT GOD. WAKE UP.

It is not a matter of "preachers," it is a matter of picking up a Bible and reading it. I'm not here to throw religion in your face, I am here to tell you that you are a walking contradiction. Do not say you are a Christian, if you are doing the things you do. No Christian would deliberately cause others to stumble upon lust and send them spiraling into an immoral lifestyle.
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:iconred-volpe:
red-volpe Featured By Owner Aug 18, 2009
I'm sorry, but on the thread, you say one thing, but then you say another. for instance, first you say you want to explore the idea of Christian Erotica. then you say that ';penis' is a naughty word? and you won't say it because you are a Christian lady? I'm sorry, but this is just too contradictory and confusing for me to understand. if you could clear this matter up, please do so. I'm not trying to be mean or anything here, I'm just confused.
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:iconborncrazy7189:
BornCrazy7189 Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2009
It's interesting that you bring this up (I apologize if I am replying to a very old post); even though I am a secular humanist (went through periods of henotheism, paganism, LaVeyan Satanism, and atheism), one reason why I was pushed away from religion and spirituality is because many modern religions - usually of the Abrahamic variety - and their members seem so focused on the spiritual that the needs, desires, and pleasures of the physical (i.e. sex and sensuality) are ignored or even reviled as "sinful". Being as I am that sensuality and my sexuality are deeply ingrained in who I am, not limited to a high libido, particularly for a woman... the typical "anti-earthly pleasures" and generally misogynistic attitude toward sex among the Christian community was a huge turnoff (in both ways!)

For me, I like to think that Jesus was first and foremost a man, with human desires, and I don't think it's wrong to depict him as a lover or even husband to Mary Magdalene (whom I don't think was actually a "reformed prostitute" in the sense that it is used today). (By the way if that idea appeals to you, you are more than welcome to use it). However, I am intrigued by what you may come up with, regardless of my personal "beliefs" (if you can really call them that in my case...)

Also, Pope John Paul II was a pretty amazing guy, and it would a appear, a rather progressive pope. I just wish I'd known that before he passed away.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2009
>> For me, I like to think that Jesus was first and foremost a man, with human desires, and I don't think it's wrong to depict him as a lover or even husband to Mary Magdalene <<

I think you might very much enjoy the Martin Scorsese film. "The Last Temptation of Christ." It asks the question, "what if Jesus had walked away from it all and settled down and gotten married." The answer the film comes up with is actually fairly intelligent and provocative.

FWIW, I think that a lot of the anti-physical bias of Christian spirituality is grounded in a broader Greek bias toward the spiritual that was common around the time of the early Church ... the whole neo-platonic and gnostic thing is very biased against "fleshly" life and pleasure.
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:iconjpa:
jpa Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2008
i think this is a a very interesting topic you are exploring. as a man with a faith (Islam) i feel that is important for people to look at their life and their faith so I think you are raising an interesting topic and it is important to explore and talk about things people are afraid to talk about like sex. It is a shame how difficult it is to enjoy sex and have a religion.
I read the forum expecting to read interesting debate. it was sad to see most people picking on one little story and forgetting the whole point of forum and the thread yet again it only adds fuel to the fire that religious people are narrow minded. i don't believe this to be true but few people on the forum showed themselves to be open minded and willing to talk about their faith. it was a shame. hopefully you will find more people actually interested in a debate and not a fight.
oh and for the record I don;t care about what you did and I would still hire you as a babysitter :)
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:iconanonymous-benefactor:
Anonymous-benefactor Featured By Owner May 6, 2008
good point sounds like it would be interesting
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:iconkael-thas-sunstrider:
Kael-Thas-Sunstrider Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2008  Hobbyist Writer
The forum from what I could tell was just people bitching at you for snooping in peoples draws lol. I gave up after a couple of pages, too tired tonight to look xD

well I still find it funny that one of the main groups who condemmed porn and erotica was Christian groups, who at the same time want people to procreate and spread over the world, thought they would be for Sexual thoughts tbh lol.

Good Night and May His Hammer Be With You.
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:iconlady-linnet:
Lady-Linnet Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2007   Writer
Fascinating topic - I'll have to take a look at the thread.
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:iconcybernetichero:
cybernetichero Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2007
Oh boy oh boy oh boy!
I'm a Christian. Before that I was an agnostic, then an atheist, then a pagan, then an agnostic and then a Christian over 40 odd years.
it was ONLY after becoming a Christian that I realised the vital importance of INTEGRITY which is far more important than morals. That is why I decided that in order to have a proper relationship with God and my fellow man I had to come out as gay.
I think the Bible is okay as far as it goes but that certain people use it as a substitute for a REAL relationship with God. It is, after all a collection of legends and myths (That is NOT a derogatory statement because legend and myth is underestimated in our society and the true function of which is largely forgotten). God is in the heart not in a book. worshiping the book is IDOLATRY!
Anyway to the point- as a gay man there is a lot of erotic imagery in the Bible. Washing the feet of the disciples... HOT!
I did a lovely picture of the love between Johnathan and King David but it was water damaged.
Oh and about Porn. Porn was the name of a northern European deity and the making and displaying of pornography formed part of the devotions of this deity so in a way pornography is a sacred thing which has been cheapened by the role of money in it's making.
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:iconcybernetichero:
cybernetichero Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2007
PS. Don't get me started on the Diet of Worms and the problems I have with the cannon of accepted books in the modern Bible. The Gnostics were left right out of it and Modern Ethiopian Christianity is so different fromwhat we think of as Christianity that we must realise that we are talking about only a branch of the Christian tree when we talk of modern western churches.
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:iconchronophontes:
Chronophontes Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
A great issue to bring up! More than worth a :+devwatch:.

Even Jesus himself could be pretty strict on sexual issues (e.g. "adultery in the heart" - unless he was misquoted) and, sadly, it's been mostly downhill from there. I think Christian erotica, even porn, is possible in principle, but it's got a hell [I mean that] of a lot of history to contend with.

I personally have moved well outward from Christianity in search of a spirituality that affirms the erotic. Whether or not I move back, I'm really happy to see the effort being made from within Christianity.

I'll be listening, and my prayers are with you!

(btw, just to clarify: that's χφ in my sig, not χρ;) )
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:iconariannablackstone:
AriannaBlackstone Featured By Owner May 27, 2007  Hobbyist Photographer
HOLY crap! that was a roleplay?!? *lmao* were anyone in there NOt aware of that? ida sooooo killed you! hahahaha. actually, no, ida laughed my head off. because if that was true, it would be true idocy to do any of that. anywho.....keep up the good work.
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:iconariannablackstone:
AriannaBlackstone Featured By Owner May 27, 2007  Hobbyist Photographer
wow, i've never heard anyne think of somthing like that. that sounds like an interesting topic. think i'll send this to my bf. he'll be interested in this topic.
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:iconluizalves:
luizalves Featured By Owner Apr 12, 2007   Photographer
The idea seems a little weird to me, as a fellow Christian. But I think the most important and interesting part was you saying that you were going to make experiments with an open mind, which means that if things don't go right you would just let the concept away.

With thoughts like these you'll go far, and you have my best wishes.
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:iconkurementsu:
kurementsu Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2007   Digital Artist
It's the thoughts of men tat defiled sexuality.

Just my 5 cents =)
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:iconsteward:
steward Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2006  Hobbyist General Artist
Your quote from the late John Paul II is interesting, but I don't think it really fits your point. "Sexual modesty" and "shame", in the matter of nakedness, is a reference (in Catholic theological terminology) to the modesty / shame of the person who is naked, not to the observer.

For a person viewing a photograph, there is no "I-thou" relationship created; there is no relationship between people, but rather the viewer's reaction to an object, id est, a photograph. The person wearing the clothes is not a person, but rather an object (unless there is some pre-existing morally allowable relationship between the viewer and the person represented in the photograph).

As you've quoted, "Immodesty is only present when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person". Objectifying a person is, in and of itself, in the Roman Catholic theological viewpoint, casting that person in a negative role. The act of viewing such a photograph and objectifying a person, whether for sexual or other purposes, constitutes shame "in the interior of the person" - that is, the viewer, not the naked individual.

That is not, of course, to say that other Christian sects would accept that line of reasoning; but taking a short quote from any sayings of a leader of the world's current longest-functioning bureaucracy on something as complex as this idea of yours, without contextualizing it, is bound to be confusing at the least.

(Why, yes, that -is- a pentacle in my avatar... but I used to be a Catholic lay evangelist, parish liturgy committee member, and church organist. :) )
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2006
Well, I do think that there is -- and must be -- an "I-thou" relationship in the act of constructing a work of art, whether visual or written. Certainly this must be the case on the part of the artist; it is probably well when it is the case on the part of the audience as well, imo. Like all acts of human communication, of course, the arts are open to missed messages, ambiguity, and the whole slew of communications failures and failings.

As for objects, I would hesitate to personify any object to the extent of letting it assume the importance of another person in a relational context ... such is prolly idolatry from a theological viewpoint, and just innane from a secular viewpoint. It reminds me kind of the arguments surrounding the US flag as a symbol , and those who would ban using it as a symbol outside of the officially approved (by the government) contexts.
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:iconrgnet:
rgnet Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2006   Digital Artist
Ok, so pornography isnt actually said to be a sin..
after i saw your journal, i wish to say my opinion on it.

I have a problem with pornography, and I hate it, it ruins me. And I hate looking at it.. So before you go saying I'm a 'holier than thou' person, just remember, i've admited to a problem with it.

Source: PornNoMore.com
To intentionally view pornography is a mortal sin, for Jesus taught that to lust after another is the equivalent of doing the act itself. Pornography is a misuse of another human person, most especially by those who profit upon it but also those who view it, who make, reduce and manipulate the person into someone to be misused. It is a dark and sinister world, often tied to other forms of crime, and Christians must have nothing to do with pornography. It has infiltrated our homes, wrecked marriages and families and ruined careers. Satan must be quite pleased with the success he has had, in bringing pornography so readily into homes and the workplace.


also
Source: Dianedew.com
Although pornography is not specifically addressed in Scripture, the principle (viewing/reading what's impure) certainly is:

Matthew 5:28 "If a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Psalm 101:3 "I will set no unclean thing before my eyes."

Philippians 4:7, 8 "Keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus... Whatsover things are pure... if there be any virtue... think on these things."

The word "pornography" comes from the Greek porneia, porneuo, and porne. Porneia is translated "fornication" in the King James Version (Mat 5:32; John 8:41; Rom 1:29; 1 Corin 6:9,13,18; Gal 5:19; Rev 19:2; etc.). Porneuo is the verb "to commit fornication," as in 1 Corin 6:18. Porne is translated "harlot" in Mat 21:31-32; 1 Corin 6:15; and Rev 17:5.

Ephesians 5:5 "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dog, and sorcerers, and
whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Many lustful sins take place in the dark, in secret, but nothing is hid from God:

Hebrews 4:13 "All things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

Numbers 32:23 "Be sure your sin will find you out."

More serious than other sins?
Pornography seems more disgusting than other evils.

1 Corinthians 6:18 "Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. "

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 "What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you ...? therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

'Just looking'?
Some would argue that looking at the naked human body is not evil, because God made it beautiful, and Adam and Eve were naked in the garden. However, that was before sin entered the picture.
"The eye is the window of the soul," as the saying goes. What we look at does affect us spiritually - and can cause us to sin. David "SAW" the woman naked, before he got ideas to sin with her. Jesus said that if a man "looks at a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her already in his heart"; etc. The sin takes place even before the action is executed.
Scripture gives many examples of men being enticed by the sight of a woman. Shechem saw the woman before he raped her. David saw the woman bathing before he had sex with her. Judah saw the harlot before he had sex with her. It was the same for Samson, etc.

Genesis 34:2 "And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, SAW HER, he took her and lay with her by force."

2 Samuel 11:2-5 "Now when evening came David arose from his bed and walked around on the roof of the king's house, and from the roof he SAW A WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful in appearance. So David sent and inquired about the woman. And one said, 'Is this not ... the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' And David sent messengers and took her, and when she came to him, he lay with her... And the woman conceived; and she sent and told David, and said, 'I am pregnant.'"

Matthew 5:28 "but I say to you, that everyone who LOOKS on a woman to LUST for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Genesis 38:2-3 "And Judah SAW there a daughter of a certain Canaanite whose name was Shua; and he took her and went in to her. So she conceived and bore a son and he named him Er...."

Genesis 38:15-16 "When Judah SAW HER, he thought she was a harlot.... So he turned aside to her by the road, and said, 'Here now, let me come in to you'; ...And she said, 'What will you give me, that you may come in to me?'"

Judges 16:1 "Now Samson went to Gaza and SAW a harlot there, and went in to her."

Judges 14:2-3 "So he came back and told his father and mother, 'I SAW a woman in Timnah, one of the daughters of the Philistines; now therefore, get her for me as a wife.' Then his father and his mother said to him, 'Is there no woman among the daughters of your relatives, or among all our people, that you go to take a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?' But Samson said to his father, 'Get her for me, for SHE LOOKS GOOD TO ME.'"

Visual stimulation is more common in man than in woman, however. There's just one example in Scripture of a woman lusting after a man by SEEING him:

Genesis 39:7-12 "And it came about after these events that his master's wife looked with desire at Joseph, and she said, 'Lie with me.' But he refused and said to his master's wife, 'Behold, with me here, my master does not concern himself with anything in the house, and he has put all that he owns in my charge. There is no one greater in this house than I, and he has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do this great evil, and sin against God?' And it came about as she spoke to Joseph day after day, that he did not listen to her to lie beside her, or be with her. Now it happened one day that he went into the house to do his work, and none of the men of the household was there inside. And she caught him by his garment, saying, 'Lie with me!' And he left his garment in her hand and fled, and went outside."

How can addiction to porn be overcome?
Giving in to lustful desires is a sign of spiritual weakness. Ephesians 6 tells us what armor to put on, to be "strong" in spiritual battle.
If you don't want to get slaughtered in battle, don't go dancing in the minefields. Former alcoholics don't hang out in bars. Fill that free time with a positive activity: Read a book. Sing a psalm. Call a friend. Visit a nursing home. Pray. As the saying goes, "Idleness is the devil's workshop."
Christians especially should not practice such sins, as we will be held to a stricter standard:

1 Peter 4:17 "Judgment must begin first at the household of God."

Luke 12:48 "To whom much (light) has been given, much (responsibility) will be required."

Is it possible to overcome this sin?

1 Corinthians 6:9, 11 "...such were (past tense) some of you. But now...."

Being tempted is not sin (even Jesus was tempted) - but giving in to it, or seeking it out, surely is.
Reply
:icondoomrater:
doomrater Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2006
Don't confuse pornography and erotica. Sexual acts aren't just meant for the personal gratification of a person (despite the many Christians who are still doing this, myself included) but are meant to be the most intimate sharing of one's body with another. That's why it's reserved for marriage.

Pornography cheapens the effect, allowing someone to simply bypass the need for a partner and recieve the chemical high from orgasm. The Bible is NOT OKAY with this issue- it clearly expects people to be in a close and dedicated relationship before this pleasure is available.

The most unclear issue is birth control, actually- one was struck down by God because he pulled out (most people read that as masturbation, but really he just pulled out at the last minute), but it was also because he was under a Jewish law to produce children. Whether the birth control aspect was responsible on its own or not, I can't tell.
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:iconkissmyhuman:
KissMyHuman Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2005
Interesting idea on the christian erotics... I'm a little pensive about if it can be done. It says on the top of your page that you're from the US (and I am too) and that presents a peculure kind ot twist to the situation. Americans was founded my religious extremests, groups like the quakers and puitans. The overall religious tone carries on through today as, on the whole, being very religiously conservative. Like said in a reply before sept 11th should be taken into consideration as well because there is this emense christian religious revival (much like you see in the 50'd because of the start of the cold war). If you look at other christian nations, like in Europe, you see a much more relaxed sense about porn and sex. If you look at Japan as a seperate example they sell used panties from vending machines.

Also I think you should clearly define, if just for yourself, the term pornography. Granted many things have a sense of being erotic but in my opinion porn is there to stimulate without interaction. With that you can seperate playboy from the karma sutra which is simple an instructional book for a couple and needs a level of interaction for stimulation.

If you keep that definition of porn, then you may want to explore why American's or Christian's feel they need to avoid interaction with people, or life in general.

Just throwing out ideas you might like to explore. Good luck on it.
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:iconkissmyhuman:
KissMyHuman Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2005
*America was founded by religious extremests

ah typos, its too early in the morning.
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:iconfixmeknow:
FixMeKnow Featured By Owner Aug 26, 2005
i haven't seen or heard anything from you in quite sometime. i hope all is well.

:hug:
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:icondemonicat:
demonicat Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Professional General Artist
this is a fascinating topic! i would love to toss myself into it headfirst, but its late and i have work tomorrow. XD also, after being raised lutheran (not just a christian, but a WELS lutheran one to boot!) ive turned away from the church and now claim to be agnostic (whatever, doesnt really matter). however, my mom is a devout lutheran, and i know for a fact she would have something to say on this, and im super curious as to what that is. ill let you know what she says (if its something more worthwhile than 'ZOMG SHE WAS ZNOOPIGN WHEN SHE BBAYSAT!111111'). ;) as i said before, i find the whole thing completely fascinating.
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:iconhydramus:
Hydramus Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2005   Writer
This is very interesting indeed, you do come out with a lot of things that just never seem to come to me! lol :D well anyways, this is a bit odd isnt it? i know i am not christian myself, but isn't it as they say, wrong to have pornography? So how would christian porn exist? :P There is the the idea of some Chirstian Erotica and from some of your peices i can kinda see that, but i usually think erotica and porn being very similar, just within different boundries... or am i right and just being stupid? lol i dunno where im going sometimes!

But i cant see how "Pornography and Alienation" is christian related or whatever, im just not too knowledgable in the idea i guess :XD: but nvm, i do like it very much btw, reminds me of some guy watching err... porno with the lights out and with only the TV on. Thats what it really does remind me of :D and if that was the idea then good i guess! :D

And yeah, there is the idea of people not maybe accepting this idea of the naked body ideas and photos and all, and you said in "Annunciation: Anxiety" that some are "offended by the existence of penises" lol what? want me to chop it off? hehe (and no i wont! lol) but people seem to be more afraid of penises for some reason than they are of a woman's vagina, well the difference is that a penis sticks out and all but so what? is it more noticable and thats why its less acceptable? Odd world considering they dont seem to mind people shooting each other in games or movies than people being naked lol TBH, i think i would rather have my children know about sex than start wanting a gun and shooting each other violently like in GTA or in a film. But what i am saying is that if people are picky about one thing, do they actaully care about the other? i havent actually been on these fourms on DA and all but its everywhere the idea of banning this and that is everywhere, in every fourm, lol but this is about art anyways, so i say let this continue and all... wtf i said a lot, damn sorry about that i just seem to ramble on sometimes :XD: lol this is long enough to be a journal itself! lol
Reply
:iconhydramus:
Hydramus Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2005   Writer
This is very interesting indeed, you do come out with a lot of things that just never seem to come to me! lol :D well anyways, this is a bit odd isnt it? i know i am not christian myself, but isn't it as they say, wrong to have pornography? So how would christian porn exist? :P There is the the idea of some Chirstian Erotica and from some of your peices i can kinda see that, but i usually think erotica and porn being very similar, just within different boundries... or am i right and just being stupid? lol i dunno where im going sometimes!

But i cant see how "Pornography and Alienation" is christian related or whatever, im just not too knowledgable in the idea i guess :XD: but nvm, i do like it very much btw, reminds me of some guy watching err... porno with the lights out and with only the TV on. Thats what it really does remind me of :D and if that was the idea then good i guess! :D

And yeah, there is the idea of people not maybe accepting this idea of the naked body ideas and photos and all, and you said in "Annunciation: Anxiety" that some are "offended by the existence of penises" lol what? want me to chop it off? hehe (and no i wont! lol) but people seem to be more afraid of penises for some reason than they are of a woman's vagina, well the difference is that a penis sticks out and all but so what? is it more noticable and thats why its less acceptable? Odd world considering they dont seem to mind people shooting each other in games or movies than people being naked lol TBH, i think i would rather have my children know about sex than start wanting a gun and shooting each other violently like in GTA or in a film. But what i am saying is that if people are picky about one thing, do they actaully care about the other? i havent actually been on these fourms on DA and all but its everywhere the idea of banning this and that is everywhere, in every fourm, lol but this is about art anyways, so i say let this continue and all... wtf i said a lot, damn sorry about that i just seem to ramble on sometimes :XD: lol this is long enough to be a journal itself! lol
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:iconsevenofeleven:
sevenofeleven Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2005
Good luck on your project.
I wonder if we were living pre 9/11 would the outcome be different.

Lots of people are frightened and angry after 9/11 and they need comfort and someone to smack up.

The line between Porn and Erotica can be so fine even US Senators can't see it.

*WikkedKitten has a good point, I won't bring it up with hardcore christians but you kinda wonder what books were left out because they did not fit the sensibilities of the folks working on the Bible way back when. Lets not even worry about translation errors with ancient Greek or Aramaic. Then again even if the Bible's main message survived intact, there will be folks that will use it to justify all sorts of horrible crimes anyway.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Jul 30, 2005
Thanks so much for the journal comment! I think you are correct that the politics of fear plays a role in all of this. I can only hope that, as is usually the case with fear-driven politics, it is a very short-tem thing.

I think it's also a "hot topics" thing. People who want to make a mark as moral reformers like to target band-wagon type "evils" to combat. Right now, it seems that video-games and controversial art on the internet are the two hottest targets.
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:iconsevenofeleven:
sevenofeleven Featured By Owner Jul 30, 2005
Good things tend to last shorter than you think and bad things tend to last longer than you think.

You are right about the easy targets, who wants to defend a violent game or a game that had porn in it? Its going to be an uphill battle. I read about what happened to comic books, they used to have many different types of comic books in the US. Somebody got offended by a few and raised a great outcry. A review board was made to oversee the content in comic books and that basically stunted them for years. Videogames are heading towards some sort of Federal regulation which will have a chilling effect. Thanks to Rockstar, now the ratings system is not enough.
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:iconwikkedkitten:
WikkedKitten Featured By Owner Jul 27, 2005
LOL oh Laurion Laurion Laurion! I got another good laugh! That thread is truely hillarious. I only got 40 comments or so down before I thought I was gunna pee myself! Was your question ever even answered? I know the bible memorizer gave an opinion but I think that was it. And she made me laugh too. I still have not figured out how so many people in the world still believe that book to be "devine truth" and whatnot...
HAS NO ONE EVER PLAYED THE GAME TELEPHONE BEFORE??? you know... the one where everyone sits in a circle and one person whispers something to the next and so on. You try to keep the same message but by the time you reach the last person that message has been changed! News flash! How many times has the bible aka "the devine truth" been written and rewritten? Perfect example... good old King James wanted to make the bible better? more personable? hmmmm ummm so what exactly did he change? DO you know? Do I know? LOL its very funny... OH yeah, and a few/some/many of the monks assigned to the arduous task of copying this new version of the bible aka "the devine truth" WENT COMPLETELY FREAKING BONKERS! So.... what exactly did THEY change? Do you know??
Oh... and this NIV Bible (lol sounds like New and Improved Version)... Has anyone sat down and compaired the NIV to the King James? ((now Im not saying King James is the ulitmate or anything... cause I dont like the bible aka "devine truth" at all)) I HAVE! and while a lot of the information is the same... some of the lesser passages... and yet useful passages are so damn ambiguous I dont know how these poor young christians are going to understand what the bible aka "devine truth" is telling them to do!
*sigh* welp... nothing i say changes much... but I felt like saying it damnit!!!!

Laurion~~~ YOU ROCK MY FREAKING WORLD! :headbang: Your wallpapers are so damn hot! and as far as christian erotica... I really dont see what the point is... Erotica is Erotica whether you label it or not.... bringing up another good point... Believers in God are Believers in God no matter what you label them! hmmmmmmmmm XD

Much love baby! :blowkiss:

:love:

Kat
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:iconkael-thas-sunstrider:
Kael-Thas-Sunstrider Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2008  Hobbyist Writer
Telephone? Never Heard of that, lol its called Chinese Whispers where I come from xD
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:iconbooger87:
booger87 Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2005
im a christian and people have done research and the bible is almost exactly the same as the oridginal documents its just they keep revising it to make it easier for people of todays culture to read and understand
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:iconwikkedkitten:
WikkedKitten Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2005
and I personally believe that when you do that, to make it easier for the general public, we humans so prone to fault, its bound to mess with the reality of things. And I have read king james and NIV and you cannot sit there and tell me that all of the passages say the same thing. Its improbable... nay, impossible! In my SUNDAY SCHOOL class we discussed this. With other christians. The words arent accurate anymore, and the meanings-- ambiguous. simple as that.

I appreciate your comment. And your opinion is noted, and respected... but I just cant see things that way. In my own experiance it just is not so.

I wish you the best of luck in your life and worship --
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:icondoomrater:
doomrater Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2006
Show me where KJV and NIV were translated from a source other than the original transcripts, and your argument will hold water.

You've said the words are different. Well, read Shakspear's plays and tell me the words mean the same thing in english today. Maybe the words are different because the words' meanings have changed!
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Jul 28, 2005
Thanks for the nice journal comment! Yes, that thread was a LOT of fun while it lasted. A couple of people tried to answer the question, iirc, but mostly I think it just made everyone's head hurt.

In school, I actually had the chance to learn a bit about the textual history of the Bible in Antiquity and the Middle Ages ... it's far worse than just the telephone game alone. It is amazing how many people through history took it on themselves to improve the Bible ... now in so many ways it is one big mess. But what else can you really expect of a document that is so old, and so popular, and handled by som many different people?

Thanks for the nice words about my wallpapers!
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:iconrgnet:
rgnet Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2006   Digital Artist
accept the translations of the bible we have now are translated from the 'original texts' and are generally not edited to change meaning unless you are ommiting things. Which mainly denominations such as the catholics and anglicans do.

The bible is today, the same bible it was when it was writen, if anything is different, it has simply had things lost from time, (scrolls burnt or damaged) but not re-writen.

Plus, i suggest you read the last post in this journal (by me).. it might actually have an answer to your question.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2006
Well, the textual history of the Bible is a HUGE topic. I disagree with you pretty thoroughly, though, and let me outline my reasons.

* There are no "original texts". Our earliest copies of the NT are 3d-4th century texts, and most of our copies are medieval. For the OT, the problem is even thornier. Again, with the enigmatic exception of the DSS, most extant copies are late antique or medieval ... but in addition the Hebrew Masorectic text that forms the basis of most modern English translations of the OT was not even begun until the late 1st century AD, by the emergent rabbinical movement in the wake of the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

* The apostles used the LXX Greek version of the OT, and this is the version they cite in the NT. Modern Bibles use the Hebrew Masoretic version of the OT as the text, which was not complete until after most of the NY books were written.

* Many of the NT books are pseudonymous, and several contain multpile levels of redaction (e.g., John, with its several different endings appended on on top of the other.

* Even modern translations play games with the text. Revelation, which is full of solecism in the Greek, is a prime example of this. For example, Rev 13:8 has the lamb who was slain since the beginning of the world hold a book; most modern translations (except the KJV!) ammend this to the lamb holds a book which was written since the beginning of the world. Why? They don't like the theological implications of the literal reading.

* Many modern translations engage heavily in theological doctoring of the text. This charge has been levelled against the NIV and the NKJV with particualar vehemence ... go Google it if you don't follow me.

* If you are a KJV fan ... be aware that several of the NT books are based on flawed Greek texts, including a marvelous outright forgery by Erasmus himself.

* The texts of the Bible went through many emendations through the Middle Ages. Some of this has been detected and removed, but much remains. A prime example is the doxology in the Lord's Prayer as written in Matthew, which is a late antique or early medieval addition (I can't remember when of the top of my head).

>> not edited to change meaning unless you are ommiting things. Which mainly denominations such as the catholics and anglicans do. <<

What exactly do you mean by this? :o
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:iconrgnet:
rgnet Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2006   Digital Artist
no offence but half of that sounds like anti-christian arguments.
I cant be bothered going into how lame it is to think of a christian who beleives the bible to be flawed. Of course some 'translations' may appear to be wrong, as the person who reads it will misinterpret it of course, HOWEVER,
have you ever thought of this:

IF God is so powerful, and Jesus is the word of God, (as it states in the bible) then doesnt that mean he'd be powerful enough to make sure his word isnt lost to the world???

Also, if those other things are flawed as you claim, doesnt that mean that jesus dying on the cross never happened? Which would mean your entire choice of religion is flawed.
How can you claim to beleive in jesus, and yet then claim the bible is flawed and damaged...? You're contradicting yourself, beleiving something you claim has been edited.

:shrug:
Usually i'd make more sense, and i honestly can't be bothered getting into it.
But if you HONESTLY studied these things, you'd realise that the bible's things have not been lost.
And if you had faith in jesus, you'd see that the bible is what it claims to be, the truth, the word of god.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2006
>> I cant be bothered going into how lame it is to think of a christian who beleives the bible to be flawed. <<

Well, I think it is even lamer to pretend that the Bible is perfect, especially since: 1.) it is clearly NOT, and 2.) the Bible ITSELF makes no claim to perfection, completeness, and self-sufficiency. (Indeed, off the top of my head I can think of Biblical passages that refute the idea that Scripture is perfect, complete and self-sufficient ... for imperfection, see Paul's discussion of his own opinion in his letters; for completeness see the conclusion of John where he talks about the stuff not written, and for self-sufficiency see Paul's discussion of Scripture as a teaching tool in the hands of the episcopacy).

A great many Christians are able to engage in textual criticism of the Bible without betraying or losing their faith. :shrug:

>> IF God is so powerful, and Jesus is the word of God, (as it states in the bible) then doesnt that mean he'd be powerful enough to make sure his word isnt lost to the world??? <<

Is Jesus lost to the world? I don't think so. In addition, you are implicitly making claims for the Bible that are not supported in the Bible itself.

>> Also, if those other things are flawed as you claim, doesnt that mean that jesus dying on the cross never happened? <<

How do you figure? To say that part of a text is inaccurate is not to say that the whole test is inaccurate. It is not an all or nothing deal.

>> How can you claim to beleive in jesus, and yet then claim the bible is flawed and damaged...? You're contradicting yourself, beleiving something you claim has been edited. <<

I don't believe in Jesus because of a book. I believe in Jesus because of the faith of other people I have encountered, and because of my own faith experiences. The Bible is not the cause of my belief; it is a text that informs and guides my belief. :shrug:

>> But if you HONESTLY studied these things, you'd realise that the bible's things have not been lost. <<

But I have honestly studied these things, on both a personal and an academic level.

>> And if you had faith in jesus, you'd see that the bible is what it claims to be, the truth, the word of god. <<

No where in the Bible does it claim that the entire Bible as we now have it is the word of God, nor the truth. This is because nowhere in the Bible is the Bible itself canonized and defined. Don't you see, the Bible itself is a creation of the Church, which compiled the Bible from a huge collection of sacred literature. The canon of the Bible did not even exist until the late 4th century!
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:iconpignut:
pignut Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2007
I heard a story about a missionary who went to the Zulus. He read to them from Leviticus where it says that you shouldn't eat the hare or because it chews the cud and has no hooves.

'No they don't' they said, and they showed him that hares actually eat their own faeces to digest their food a 2nd time. They don't chew the cud. The missionary lost his faith.
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:iconpignut:
pignut Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2007
*hare might be a mistranslation. The animal in question might actually be a hyrax which does chew the cud
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:iconrgnet:
rgnet Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2006   Digital Artist
Don't you see, the Bible itself is a creation of the Church, which compiled the Bible from a huge collection of sacred literature. The canon of the Bible did not even exist until the late 4th century!

the bible as a complete BOOK is compiled by the church yes, however it is NOT made by the church, it was devinely inspired by God. And historically the bible can be backed up..

But im not going into this any further..
simply because im not the person to talk to about this, I'm a beleiver in jesus, not a preacher.

I dont wish to start a fight either ;P
and knowing me, a religious debate will turn into a fight.
Reply
:iconrmpaul:
rmpaul Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2005
That statement by John Paul II is fascinating. And to be honest, I wish more people would take heed to such things ... particularly those who are of the Catholic type. There is such an ingrained fearof the naked body, and it's unnecessary.

You may be onto something here...
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2005
Thanks for the journal comment! I agree that there is a cultural fear of not only the naked body, but of sexuality as well. But sexuality might just be a powerful metaphor for many aspects of the religious experience that make no sense whatsoever from a purely rational viewpoint. At the very least, I think I would like to see people view sexual ecstacy as an apt metaphor for understanding religious ecstacy, and vice versa.
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:iconthumper69:
Thumper69 Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2005
We are not brought into this world clothed and nature did not create clothes.... I know that I am skirting the issue of Sex but it starts there and goes on. The "Porn" industry is multi billions in sales as a mater of fact the only area that compete on the dollar sales are food, clothing and gas. All are neccesities and the prementioned is not. It is a "luxury" to spend money on it but more is spent there "in privacy" than just about anywhere else.
Those that will attack what you are doing are part of the Moral Majority.... oooppps I think that would be more like the immoral minority as the good book says Though shall not judge and that is all those hipocrates are doing.... Judging. Do not get me wrong, not all religious individuals are hipocrates just the ones that think they are above everyone else and they do not make mistakes.....
I will get off my soap box now except to say that anyone who has read the bible and is honest on the content will notice that there really should be a parental rating on it and as my God fearing father and mother used to say..... It is actually one of the most pornographic books around and sold in more countries and languages than just about any other book..... And people say the government does not like compitition....

Keep up the great work of raising the bar for people to think, talk and hopefully be open to the opinions of others.
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:iconlaurion:
Laurion Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2005
Thanks for the journal comment! The Bible is indeed a very risque book, and certain parts of it, such as Ezekiel, are down-right pornographic. And yes, the porn industry is a multi-billion dollar a year enterprise, which is precisely why people should be eager to inject certain spiritual and moral values into the production and consumption of porn. Let's face it, porn is never going to go away ... so why not just make it better ... why not "Christianize" it?
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:iconthumper69:
Thumper69 Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2005
I do not think that you will ever be able to completely "Christianize" it. Because not everyone will ever want something in that fashion including some of the "Chirstians". But I do believe that there would be a very very large market nitch for something of that nature. Some may even be bold enough to call it a FETISH....... hehe :giggles: Heck if you fashioned it out of certain areas, which will remain nameless, you can hit some illegal areas of "porn"...... sorry... started on that subject again. From what i am reading here on DA it would all be called Artictic nudes now..... :excited:
I actually think this is a great controversial subject to have some fun, serious fun, but fun with none the less.... Thanks for the subject.
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